Filmmaker says ‘rational conversation’ with Trump not possible after Jan. 6

Source: The Hill | June 30, 2022 | Jared Gans

A filmmaker whose clips of the Jan. 6, 2021, Capitol insurrection and interviews with members of the Trump family gained national attention as part of the House panel investigation into the attack said it’s no longer possible to have a “rational conversation” with former President Trump. 

Alex Holder, who sat for a deposition with the House Jan. 6 select committee last week, said in an interview published Wednesday with New York magazine that Trump now seemed to be “utterly irrational” and living in an alternate reality.

Holder interviewed Trump on multiple occasions, including twice after the Jan. 6 insurrection. 

“It’s very scary when people start to believe their own lies and when you can’t have a rational conversation with them — that’s when things become very dangerous,” he said. 

Holder said earlier this month that Trump would not recognize his role in encouraging the rioters who went to the Capitol on the day of the attack or accept any responsibility for what happened. 


Holder said those around Trump in the time before and after the attack had different views on his efforts to overturn the election. He said some were hopeful that Trump would be successful, while others were strongly opposed to his efforts and others were indifferent.

“There was a sense of people feeling a bit scared of him,” he said.


The filmmaker said he believes the family let him film them because they expected Trump to win and wanted Holder to capture the victory. He also said not being part of the “media fabric” that they distrusted may have helped gain their trust. 

Holder said on a Yahoo News podcast on Wednesday that Trump is incapable of recognizing that his claims of voter fraud are false and is living in “cloud cuckoo land.” He said his recordings show Trump genuinely believes his claims. 

“Donald Trump is not a rational player. I mean, he just isn’t,” he said.

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